Further evidence that 50 caliber MGs in game are under powered. I did not get a kill on this 190, and he kept flying and fighting after this pummeling.
This should have at the very least removed his wings.
lol you can say that again
During the last intermission, I conducted an experiment. I drove a Laffly SPAA to a German town and fired one shot at an MG tower with the 25mm HE. It only took one shot to destroy it. I repaired it with a second account, and again, it only took one shot to destroy the MG tower. I then drove a Bedford SPAA to that same MG tower and it took 4 hits with 20mm HE to destroy the tower. I tried it a second time with the same results.
Then I drove an M3 halftack to that same tower. It took 13 hits from 50 BMG. I repaired the tower and next it took 12 hits. A third time took 12 hits.
Based on this overly simple test, 25mm HE is 4 times more powerful than 20mm and 12 times more powerful than 50 BMG. Obviously, 20mm HE is 3 times more powerful than 50 BMG according to this test.
So if it takes 3 or 4 rounds of 25mm to bring down an enemy plane, it would take 12 to 16 rounds of 20mm. However, I’ve found that it’s more like 8 to 10 rounds of 20mm jto get an EA kill.
3 or 4 25mm hits would equal 36 to 48 hits with 50 cal to bring down an EA. That seems to be the norm and if you watch actual combat footage, 36 to 48 hits to bring down an EA seems high.
The game deals damage in terms of joules, which if you aren’t familiar is a measurement of energy. Joules vary greatly between calibres and types of rounds, and can even vary greatly within calibres of rounds. For example, 20mm MG/FF and 20mm Hispano, or .50 BMG and .50 Vickers, despite being same calibres respectively, are two totally different beasts each in the world of joules. This all to say, your testing holds no water.
My personal input on the matter is that so long as I’ve paid serious attention to the air game (ca. 2010, dating myself I know), there have been constant complaints either for or against the performance of the Browning .50 cal. My personal experience being either the shooter or the receiver of such is, they are just fine and in comparison to other combat flight simulators probably on the stronger side in this game. The issue you guys are demonstrating in this post is either related to the AA unit, the target unit, or both in my opinion - but I doubt it is the ammunition.
If you watch some historical footage, you’ll find that the 12.7mm gun was very weak against armored aircraft, especially bombers.
at some point though structural integrity on parts is gone. Some units are just rediculous to kill on occasion. The inconsistancy has me thinking most of the problems aren’t the guns, it is the planes and something funky going on with the game.
Jester, you’re correct about my testing not holding water, and I already knew that the gun based damage model was very simplisticly based on joules delivered without factoring in details such as penetration. However, my test has merit in that it reveals just how simplistic (and therefore unrealistic) their damage is. One 25mm HE equals four 20mm HE equals twelve 50 BMG…period. Plus I’ve observed that if your projectiles hit the same spot on an EA (for example) already hit, no further damage is accrued.
I have to disagree with your statement that 50 BMG is on the stronger side in this game. I’ve also played other sims and in them, have never seen enemy aircraft take the sheer volume of hits from 50s that I’ve seen in WW2OL at times. No doubt because the WW2OL damage algorithm is demanding X number of hits from 50s compared to however many 20s it would have taken, which is very unrealistic and much more likely to be the source of so many complaints about 50s in game.
Chuck Yeager, a famous P51 ace in WW2, has explained in interviews that the 50 BMG was more effective vs fighters than 20mm HE due to the far superior penetration. However, in this game joules are all that matter and that’s why the 50 BMG under performs, and that’s the crux of my complaint.
sa43210, I have watched tons of WW2 gun camera footage and have noted that 50s tore enemy aircraft up effectively due to the rate/volume of fire. Also, 50 BMG AP and API penetrated aircraft armor with ease. Watch again, then watch 20mm equipped planes firing on armored aircraft. You will see how they struggle too.
50 are not dealing any structural damage to aircraft. they are just pretty big pencils. your only hope is to hit pilot or damage engine, flaming tank on late planes are very very rare situation. look for fw190 and late 109 armor. you will see armored glass that is invicible to 12.7, you cant kill pilot through it, there is also engine at front that is considered as BIG steel plate. your brownings are not going through anything of that and this 2 parts covers pilot from hits. there is little to no chances to kill pilot head on but you 100% placed a timer on his engine and he gonna rtb after this. Next time wait for a better situation to shoot enemies not armored sides and be accurate :)